Death of Earlene Roberts (1966)
November 1966, Ramparts magazine, 'The Legacy of Penn Jones, Jr.':
IV; Earlene Roberts--Heart Attack: Mrs. Roberts, the plump widow who managed the rooming house where Oswald was living under the name O. H. Lee, was one of the key witnesses before the Warren Commission. She testified that "around one o'clock, or maybe a little after" on November 22, Oswald rushed into the rooming house, stayed in his room for "not over 3 or 4 minutes" and walked out zipping on a light-weight jacket. The last she saw of him he was waiting at a nearby bus stop. A few minutes later, one mile away, Officer Tippit was shot dead. During the brief time Oswald was in his room, a police car with two uniformed cops in it pulled up in front of the rooming house, and that she did not recognize either the car or the policemen. She heard the horn honk, "just kind of 'tit-tit'— twice," and after a moment saw the police car move off down the street. Moments later Oswald left the house. The police department issued a report saying all patrol cars in the area (except Tippit's) were accounted for. The Warren Commission let it go at that. It did not seek to resolve the question: what were policemen doing honking the horn outside Oswald's rooming house 30 minutes after a Presidential assassination? Their swift departure would indicate they certainly were not coming to apprehend him. It is perhaps too far fetched to imagine that they were giving Oswald some kind of signal, although it seems as plausible as any other explanation of this bizarre incident. After testifying in Dallas in April of 1964, Mrs. Roberts was subjected to intensive police harassment. They visited her at all hours of the day and night, contacted her employers and identified her as the Oswald rooming house lady. As a result she was dismissed from three housekeeping and nursing jobs in April, May and June of 1964 alone; no telling how many jobs she lost after that. Relatives report that right up until her death a year and a half later, Earlene complained of being "worried to death" by the police. Mrs. Roberts died January 9, 1966, in Parkland Hospital. Police said she suffered a heart attack in her home. |
Earlene Roberts' sister, Bertha Cheek, to the FBI:
Earlene Roberts' sister, Bertha Cheek to the Warren Commission, 1964:
Comparing Cheeks' words to the Warren Commission with those to the FBI, Cheek seems to be lying about the extent of her ties to Ruby:
- She says the first time she met Jack Ruby was in 1957-1958, but to the FBI she related that Ruby already tried to get her on board as a partner in 1948, a year after Ruby had moved to Dallas (some indicate as a Chicago mob representative).
- She forgets to mention she spoke with Jack Ruby for several hours at the Carousel in another attempts of Ruby to invest in his club.
- Her convict boyfriend at the time, Bobby Litchfield, another friend of Ruby, actually acted as an early conduit. She forgets to mention him to the Warren Commission as an acquaintance of Ruby.
- Remembering nothing about the Cubans and never having voluntarily mentioned it to the FBI is intriguing, because Ruby was deeply involved in pro-Castro and then anti-Castro arms and refugee operations. For Oswald went the same.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now since you have lived in Dallas, have you met Jack Ruby? Mrs. CHEEK. I met him on two occasions. Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you first happen to meet Jack? Mrs. CHEEK. He called me to invest in a nightclub. Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that? Mrs. CHEEK. Oh, sometime in November, the latter part of November, I think it was. Mr. GRIFFIN. The first time? Mrs. CHEEK. The first time I don't remember. Just what year it might have been, could have been 1957 or 1958, I don't know. Whenever he was over here in the Carousel, and he was trying to sell half of it, and I talked to him about it. Mr. GRIFFIN. He owned the Carousel at the time he called you the first time? Mrs. CHEEK. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he want to sell you half of the Carousel? Mrs. CHEEK. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you invested in any nightclubs before? Mrs. CHEEK. No; but I am in the real estate business, and I invest in properties all the time. ... Mr. GRIFFIN. The Federal Bureau of Investigation? Mrs. CHEEK. Yes. And I told them what connection I had in connection with Jack Ruby. He asked me to put $6,000 in a nightclub. Mr. GRIFFIN. I am wondering if I could ask you if you will make those records available again? I think what I would like to do is ask one of the Secret Service agents to go out there and either make some arrangements to photocopy them and then return them to you, or else if it would be more convenient to let me look at them for some short period of time, and then return them to you. I think I would prefer to photocopy them, unless they are voluminous and it would be prohibitive. I think I would only be going back to January 1959. Mrs. CHEEK. Those two men went through everything I had and looked at it. Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you object if I---- Mrs. CHEEK. It is just an awful lot of trouble for me right now because I am very busy and I have illness in my home. If I thought I could help you, and really if there is anything there, I would bring them down myself to you. Mr. GRIFFIN. I would like to do this in a way that would be least inconvenient. Mrs. CHEEK. But I don't know Oswald and I just knew Jack Ruby when he asked me to invest $6,000 and I didn't do it. I didn't like the way he wanted me to invest. He wanted to put in $1,000, and me $6,000. Mr. GRIFFIN. What would be the least inconvenient way to do this? If perhaps all the books are in one place, we could get the books from January 1, 1959, on to the present and photocopy them in a day and then return them to you. Would that be convenient? Mrs. CHEEK. I have them stored, is the only thing. I have a lot of things in front, and it is difficult in digging it out, you know. ... Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, do any of your friends or acquaintances or tenants know Jack Ruby? Mrs. CHEEK. Not that I know of. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall at all who it might have been that had known Jack well enough to tell you that he was running his business well? Mrs. CHEEK. I think it was a policeman that had rented from me that I had talked to occasionally and said something about Jack Ruby's place. I don't know just who it was that told me, and their name. I would be talking to someone sometime, and I can't remember their names to save my life. Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the name of the policeman? Mrs. CHEEK. I don't know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you had a number of policemen rent from you? Mrs. CHEEK. I think Mr. Olsen said something--I am not sure of the name--on the police force. I wouldn't like to say anything else unless I know for sure I can give the exact name and address. I just heard this conversation. Mr. GRIFFIN. Well---- Mrs. CHEEK. See. Mr. GRIFFIN. When did the police officer whose name might have been Olson [saw Ruby on a weekly basis at the Carousel; spoke with Ruby for hours the night after the Kennedy assassination; also explained word among police officers was that Tippit was among the officers Jack Ruby knew], when did he rent from you? Mrs. CHEEK. Beachcomber in 1961 or 1960, I believe. Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did he continue to rent from you? Mrs. CHEEK. I don't think he rented there very long, 3 or 4 months. But this was after. Let's see, no, it wasn't after. That was after the first time I had met him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, other than Mr. Olsen, you don't know of anybody else of your acquaintances or tenants who knew Jack Ruby? Mrs. CHEEK. No. You know, his name has been in the paper and his advertising; and I am sure a lot of people had heard about him and go to the club, but I had never gone to the club. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now did your husband know Jack Ruby? Mr. Cheek, did he know Jack Ruby? Mrs. CHEEK. No. I don't know whether he did or not. He may know Jack Ruby because he is a National Cash Register man downtown that fixes all of the cash registers. He might have gone up and worked on a cash register. I really don't know. I haven't asked him. Mr. GRIFFIN. The FBI talked with you sometime ago. I believe you indicated that you had some recollection that some Cubans had rented from you back in 1959, two Cubans had rented from you? Mrs. CHEEK. I don't know just exactly what was said on that, whether they got that off of the books or whether my sister had told them about it, that rented to Oswald over on Beckley. Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Mrs. CHEEK. Mrs. Roberts or Miss Roberts--Mrs- Roberts---- Mr. GRIFFIN. Miss? Mrs. CHEEK. Mrs. Roberts. I don't know whether she told me about that or if they got it off the book, or whether I had rented to a Cuban. I think one or two, and also Dr. Florescent of the Philippine Islands. Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us what recollection you have of the Cubans that you rented to. Mrs. CHEEK. I don't remember them because I had managers in there. I wouldn't know them personally myself at all. Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to hand you, Mrs. Cheek, a document which consists of 3 pages, and it purports to be an interview report prepared by two agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Mr. Barry and Mr. Kelley. This is supposed to have been a copy of a report of interview which they had with you on November 27, 1963. Maybe if you will look this over, you may recall it is reported in here that at that time--I will read it: "That she recalled having rented to two Cuban males, in 1959 or 1960, but could provide no other information concerning them." Why don't you take your time and read that whole thing over, because I am interested in finding out whether the whole report is an accurate report of that interview. Mrs. CHEEK. I owned this boarding house at 5212 Gaston since 1948 to about 1961. Mr. GRIFFIN. What does it say? Mrs. CHEEK. It says 1956 to 1961. Mr. GRIFFIN. You want to take Miss Laidrich's pen and make a change there to reflect the period that you actually owned, that boarding house, the actual period? Mrs. CHEEK. [Makes correction.] Mr. GRIFFIN. And you sold it in 1961? Mrs. CHEEK. I think that is about the date that I sold it. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you want to initial that change there that you made and put a date by it? Mrs. CHEEK. [Initials and dates.] Mr. GRIFFIN. This is 4-14-64. Why don't you go ahead and take your time to read it through and make any other corrections. Mrs. CHEEK. I have got to go. Mr. GRIFFIN. Mrs. Cheek has indicated that her daughter is in the hospital and she told me earlier, and would like to recess this. Perhaps we can set another time to continue it. Mrs. CHEEK. I thought that I was only going to be here about 15 minutes, and I was supposed to talk to the doctor about that. |
Warren Commission testimony of Robert "Bobby" Litchfield:
A convict and associate of Jack Ruby whom Earlene Roberts' sister, Bertha Cheek, wanted to marry just before the Kennedy assassination. While Bertha almost became a business partner of Jack Ruby in his Carousel Club in the late 1950s, Litchfield indicates he and Bertha were looking to buy Jack Ruby's Vegas Club with Ruby trying to sell Bertha, through Litchfield, his Carousel Club. Bertha forget to mention this in her own testimony.
Mr. LITCHFIELD. I have a criminal record when I was 19 years old, that's 11 years ago. Mr. HUBERT. What is the nature of it? Mr. LITCHFIELD. I forged some hot checks and paid them off, but because I still had a bunch of them out, I had three charges in Fort Worth, eight in Dallas, the sum total was roughly $3,000. Restitution was made prior to the time I went to court. I went to court and received 3 years concurrently on each charge, 3 years on each charge in Fort Worth, 3 years on each charge in Dallas, and concurrently backdated at Fort Worth to August of 1952. ... I was released in April of 1956. ... Mr. HUBERT. You say you are a professional bowler? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. Have you competed? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; in 1960 and 1961 I did, sir. ... Mr. HUBERT. Now, you were living in Dallas, I take it, in the last 6 months of 1963? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I was. Mr. HUBERT. Where were you living then? Mr. LITCHFIELD. 302 West Clarendon. I also lived at the Drexel House Apartments. Mr. HUBERT. Where are they located? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, me, I have forgotten the address " Henderson and Knox. Mr. HUBERT. Who runs that? Mr. LITCHFIELD. I've forgotten the lady's name that runs that. Mr. HUBERT. Bertha Cheek. Mr. LITCHFIELD. No " she does not run it. Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Bertha Cheek? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I do. Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what street she lives on? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I do " Bertha Cheek lives on Swiss Avenue. She owns an apartment house on Swiss, but the Drexel House is on " right off the comer of Knox. Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever live at Bertha Cheek's boarding house or apartment? Mr. LITCHFIELD. No, sir; I did not. Mr. Hubert. Never? Mr. Litchfield. Never. ... Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever visit at her place? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir. Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, her apartment? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. When? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, let's see, spasmodically from September to October and November of 1963. Mr. HUBERT. In other words you met her---- Mr. LITCHFIELD. In September--I'm pretty sure it was, about the latter part of August or the first of September. Mr. HUBERT. And you met her by simply being introduced to her by Sands at a bowling alley? Mr. LITCHFIELD. No; he told me she had planned on putting in a lounge and Bob had given her my phone number and she called me on the pretext that I might build it and run it for her. Mr. HUBERT. So you went to see her then? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir. Mr. HUBERT. And you went to her house? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; on Swiss. Mr. HUBERT. You had never seen her before? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Never before that--she said she had seen me, but there was no recollection or no introduction prior to that time. Mr. HUBERT. Well, what happened to the negotiations that you engaged in with her? Mr. LITCHFIELD. It would be that I would have had to divorce my wife and had to have married her for any other further business to have been transacted. Mr. HUBERT. If I'm not mistaken, isn't she an older woman than you are a man? Mr. LITCHFIELD. I believe she is--she's 30-something or 40-something. Mr. HUBERT. And you are saying to us that she made it a condition? Mr. LITCHFIELD. It wasn't a verbal condition--it was a obvious condition. It was a situation that was arising, let's say that. Mr. HUBERT. And you perceived that you would have to marry her if this thing was to go forward? Mr. LITCHFIELD. That, or divorce my wife. Mr. HUBERT. But she did not say so? Mr. LITCHFIELD. No. Mr. HUBERT. You think she intimated it? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Let's say, from my past experience and knowledge of--worldly knowledge--I would assume this, that's being kind of tactful. Mr. HUBERT. I was wondering if you could point to any events, since you can't point to any words that gave you that impression? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Without being too personal or intimate on my own actions or any actions other than hers, no; and I don't care to be. Mr. HUBERT. All right, Did you know Jack Ruby? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I knew Jack. Mr. HUBERT. How did you meet him? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Jack used to own the Vegas Club and I used to go there quite a bit. Mr. HUBERT. How do - how long do you suppose it is that you have known Jack? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, I would say from 1959, October, roughly. Mr. HUBERT. Continuously? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Well, I will go in and say "hello" to him, see him whenever I would go in. It wasn't a friendship relation that I would go out of my way to call him or see him or that he would call me. He had no way of knowing how to call me. He knew me when he saw me and said, "Hello, how are you?" Mr. HUBERT. What about the Carousel Club, did you visit it? Mr. LITCHFIELD. I have been in that place twice. Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us when that was? Mr. LITCHFIELD. When I was associated with Bertha and she was thinking of putting in a business, we looked at a whole bunch of clubs she thought were for sale, and I knew the Vegas Club was not making any money and I would have liked to have tried to buy it from Jack, so one night I went down to see him. I had called and he said he would be there about 10 :30 or 11 and he got there about 11:15 or 11:30, something like that, and I discussed the purchase of the Vegas Club and that's when he told me it had, I think, $40,000 worth of Federal liens or something against it which still had it, and he tried to sell me the Carousel and I wouldn't attempt to put in a private club in downtown Dallas; I was thinking of making the Vegas a private club by remodeling it. Mr. HUBERT. But what you wanted to put in was a private club, not an open or public club like the Carousel? Mr. LITCHFIELD. That's right, a private club. Mr. HUBERT. And it was your opinion that the Carousel was not the proper place for a private club? Mr. LITCHFIELD. Right, any downtown location. You see, I cannot obtain an open, let's say a beer license because of my record with the city of Dallas, but I can obtain a private club license from the State of Texas, even though I have a record. I talked to Buddy Mills on the liquor board and he said, "If you haven't done anything in 3 to 5 years," no conviction or anything," you can. Mr. HUBERT. That was the first time you were in the Carousel and you were there with Cheek? Mr. LITCHFIELD. No; I was not. I was alone. That was the second time I had been in there. I had been in there one other time. I just went in to see what it was. I didn't speak to anybody at all that time. Mr. HUBERT. Can you give us the date of the second time that you did speak to him? Mr. LITCHFIELD. I think right around the middle of October, the second week or the third week, somewhere along in there. The exact date? No; I cannot. Mr. HUBERT. I think you said that at the time, or you said once before in your statement " at the time you were there there were some people taking pictures of the club? Mr. LITCHFIELD. There were some fellows, you see, when I walked in Jack wasn't there and I told the doorman, whom I found out later was his roommate. I don't remember the man's name, that I was to see Jack on business and he said he wasn't there, and so I sat down and had some coffee and watched the bumps and what have you, and after Jack came in. then he had to see two or three people before me. |
Police officer Harry N. Olsen to the Warren Commission:
Mr SPECTER. Do you know Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Yes. Mr SPECTER. When did you fir. st become acquainted with Mr. Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Oh, about 3 years ago. Mr SPECTER. What were the circumstances of your making his acquaintance? Mr OLSEN. I was with the police department at the time and I was working that area where his club was, and it was a routine check of his place. Mr SPECTER. How did you and Jack Ruby get along during the time you knew him? Mr OLSEN. We spoke. And sometimes he would get mad and I would talk to him and calm him down a little bit. Mr SPECTER. How often did you visit Jack Ruby's club, the Carousel Club? Mr OLSEN. Oh, once a week, I guess. Sometimes more and sometimes less. Mr SPECTER. Did you ever have any disputes with Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Sometimes. Mr SPECTER. What was the cause of the disputes? Mr OLSEN. He would get mad with some of his help, some of his employees mostly, or customers. And he was erratic and hotheaded. Mr SPECTER. What specific indications did you observe that he was erratic or hotheaded? Mr OLSEN. Well, sometimes he would get so mad that he would shake. Mr SPECTER. What would cause him to get that mad? Mr OLSEN. Anything. I mean, he would Just fly off the handle about anything. Mr SPECTER. Can you give me a specific illustration of what caused him on any occasion to become that angry? Mr OLSEN. Mostly with his help. Mr SPECTER. A moment ago you said that you had disagreements with him over the way he treated his help. What was it about the way he treated his help which caused you to have any disagreement with Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Well, they would want to quit and he would get upset about that. Mr SPECTER. Was that in relation only to Mrs. Kay Olsen who was an employee of his, or did that apply to other employees as well? Mr OLSEN. Others. Mr SPECTER. Why was it that you were concerned about other employees? Mr OLSEN. He would talk to me about it and ask me what I thought, and I would try to tell him to just calm down. Mr SPECTER. But as a result of those conversations with Ruby, you had disagreements with him? Mr OLSEN. Not very often. Not very often. Mr SPECTER. Can you give me any other information as to what caused any disagreement between you and Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. No, I can't think of anything. Mr SPECTER. Where were you living in the fall of 1963, say in September of 1963? Mr OLSEN. On Theatre Lane. Mr SPECTER. And where was Mrs. Kay Olsen, who was then not your wife, living at that time? Mr OLSEN. On Ewing. Mr SPECTER. What was her specific address, if you recall? Mr OLSEN. 325 North Ewing, I believe. Mr SPECTER. What was your relationship with Kay in the fall of 1963? Mr OLSEN. We were going together. Mr SPECTER. Was she unmarried at that time? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Had she been married previously? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. When was her divorce final, if you know? Mr OLSEN. I don't know. Mr SPECTER. Can you give me an approximate date as to when it was final? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Can you tell me if it was a few months or a few years before 1963? Mr OLSEN. I just don't know. She might know. Mr SPECTER. Were you married or single in the fall of 1963? Mr OLSEN. I was single. Mr SPECTER. Had you been married prior to that time? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. When was your divorce final? Mr OLSEN. October of 1963. Mr SPECTER. Were you separated from your wife prior to October of 1963? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. When were you first separated from your former wife? Mr OLSEN. About 6 months before that. Mr SPECTER. Were you going with or steadily dating Kay, then, from the early fall of 1963 on up until the time that you married her in December of 1963, or January of 1964? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Where did Mr. Ruby live in the fall of 1963, say September of 1963, if you know? Mr OLSEN. He lived on Ewing. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall---- Mr OLSEN. Right at Stemmons Freeway. Mr SPECTER. How far was that from Kay's house? Mr OLSEN. Approximately 4 or 5 blocks. Mr SPECTER. How far was Mr. Ruby's residence from your residence? Mr OLSEN. Oh, boy. Oh, it was, I would guess, 2 or 3 miles. Mr SPECTER. Did you ever live only 1 block away from Mr. Ruby's residence? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Did Jack Ruby ever visit you at your apartment? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Did Jack Ruby ever visit Kay at her apartment? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. How many times did he visit Kay at her apartment? Mr OLSEN. I don't know. Mr SPECTER. Could you give me an approximation? Mr OLSEN. Oh, seven or eight times. Mr SPECTER. Were you always present on those occasions? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. What was the purpose of Jack Ruby's visiting Kay? Mr OLSEN. Sometimes he would be mad about something, and mad at an employee, or sometimes he would stop by for breakfast after he closed his club. Mr SPECTER. Was there ever any romantic connection between Jack Ruby and Kay? Mr OLSEN. Not to my knowledge. Mr SPECTER. It was just a cordial relationship which would lead him to stop over and pay her a visit and have breakfast or something to that effect? Mr OLSEN. Yes. Mr SPECTER. Was Ruby friendly with many police officers employed by the Dallas Police Department? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. What were the circumstances surrounding his friendship for police officers? Mr OLSEN. He seemed to like police officers. Mr SPECTER. Was there any special reason for his affinity for police officers, or for liking them especially? Mr OLSEN. No, he Just seemed to be friendly with all of them, wanted to know them. Mr SPECTER. Did you know Officer J. D. Tippit? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Did you know him very well? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Do you know whether or not Jack Ruby knew Officer J. D. Tippit? Mr OLSEN. I heard that he did. Mr SPECTER. From whom did you hear that? Mr OLSEN. It was a rumor that he did. Mr SPECTER. When did you hear that rumor that he did know Officer J.D. Tippit? Mr OLSEN. While talking with other officers. I couldn't specifically say when. Mr SPECTER. Was that after Tippit was killed? Mr OLSEN. Yes. Mr SPECTER. Did you ever hear anybody say that Jack Ruby knew Officer J. D. Tippit before Officer Tippit was killed? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Could you recall specifically who it was who said that Ruby knew Officer Tippit? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Did you ever see Jack Ruby and Officer J. D. Tippit together? Mr OLSEN. No, not that I recall. Mr SPECTER. Well, think about that for just a minute and then see if you recollect anything more specifically on whether or not you ever saw Jack Ruby and Officer J. D. Tippit together. Mr OLSEN. No, I don't. Mr SPECTER. Did Jack Ruby ever do any favors for you, Mr. Olsen? Mr OLSEN. Well, like what? Mr SPECTER. Well, anything in a friendly way, such as do something you asked him to do or something of that sort? Did you ever ask him to do anything for you? Mr OLSEN. Well, I asked him to let Kay off sometimes. Mr SPECTER. Did he honor that request? Mr OLSEN. Most of the time. Mr SPECTER. Did you ever ask him to do anything besides letting Kay off on occasion? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall November 22, 1963, the day President Kennedy was assassinated? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Tell me, as specifically as you can recollect, exactly what your activities were on that day. Mr OLSEN. I was employed by the Dallas Police Department and I was working at an extra job guarding an estate. ... Mr SPECTER. Did you go then to Dealey Plaza? Mr OLSEN. Yes, we drove by there. Mr SPECTER. Did you go anyplace else? Mr OLSEN. We went to a garage. Mr SPECTER. Where was that garage located? Mr OLSEN. Jackson and Field. Mr SPECTER. What was the purpose of going to a garage at Jackson and Field? Mr OLSEN. We knew the man who worked there. Mr SPECTER. What was his name? Mr OLSEN. Johnny is all I know him by. Mr SPECTER. What sort of work did he do at that garage? Mr OLSEN. He was an attendant. Mr SPECTER. Why did you want to go see him? Mr OLSEN. To talk. Mr SPECTER. For any special purpose? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Do you recollect about what time you arrived at that garage? Mr OLSEN. Oh, 12, approximately. Mr SPECTER. Did you see Johnny when you were there? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Did you see anybody else while you were at that garage? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Who else did you see? Mr OLSEN. Jack Ruby. Mr SPECTER. Did you see anybody else besides Johnny and Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Not that I remember; no. Mr SPECTER. Now, before seeing Ruby at the garage on that Friday night, when had you seen him most recently before that time? Mr OLSEN. It could have been a few days or a week. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall where it was that you saw him prior to this Friday night? Mr OLSEN. Oh, it was probably outside of his club. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall the specific instance or are you just saying what you think probably occurred? Mr OLSEN. I am just saying what probably occurred, because I don't remember when I saw him before that. Mr SPECTER. Do you have any recollection what your conversation was with Mr. Ruby when you saw him prior to this Friday night? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. How long did you talk to Mr. Ruby on this Friday night? Mr OLSEN. Two or three hours. Mr SPECTER. Who else was present at the time of the conversation? Mr OLSEN. Kay. Mr SPECTER. And anybody else? Mr OLSEN. Johnny. Mr SPECTER. Was there anybody besides Johnny and Kay and Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Not that I remember. Mr SPECTER. Tell me. as specifically as you can recall exactly what it was that Ruby said and what it was that you and Kay and Johnny said in reply to him? Mr OLSEN. We were all upset about the President's assassination, and we were just talking about how we hated it, that it was a tragedy. Mr SPECTER. Did Jack Ruby say something to that effect? Mr OLSEN. Yes; very strongly. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall what his exact words were, by any chance? Mr OLSEN. I believe he said something to the effect that "It's too bad that a peon," or a person like Oswald, "could do something like that," referring to shooting the President and the officer, Officer Tippit. Mr SPECTER. Did he say anything more about Oswald at that time? Mr OLSEN. He cursed him. Mr SPECTER. What specific language did he use? Mr OLSEN. S.o.b. Mr SPECTER. Was there any other specific curse that you recollect Ruby used in describing Oswald? Mr OLSEN. He could have said something else, but I remember that. I'm sure that he did say something else, but I don't remember what it was. Mr SPECTER. Did he say anything at that time about whether or not he knew Oswald? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. Did he say anything at that time about whether or not he knew Officer J. D. Tippit? Mr OLSEN. It seemed that he did know Officer Tippit. Mr SPECTER. Why do you say, "It seemed that he did know Officer Tippit? Mr OLSEN. I believe he said that Tippit had been to his club. Mr SPECTER. Recollect as specifically as you can exactly what he said about that, if you can, Mr. Olsen. Mr OLSEN. Something about Oswald shooting the President and Officer Tippit and leaving the wife and children, and he kept referring to Jaequeline. Mr SPECTER. Well, how about what you were referring to concerning Ruby's knowing Officer Tippit? What exactly did Ruby say at that time, to the best of your ability to recollect, about any relationship or acquaintanceship between Jack Ruby and J. D. Tippit? Mr OLSEN. Well, I just don't remember if there was anything specifically said about that. Mr SPECTER. What did you say to Ruby during that conversation? Mr OLSEN. I said it was a tragedy that this happened. Mr SPECTER. What did Johnny say to Ruby at that time? Mr OLSEN. And he said, yes; it sure was. Mr SPECTER. Did Johnny say anything else? Mr OLSEN. Well, we all talked; I don't remember what exactly was said. Mr SPECTER. Do you remember anything specifically that Kay said at that time? Mr OLSEN. No. It was a shame that it had happened. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall whether or not Kay said something to the effect that "In England they would have Oswald by his toes and drag him through the street"? Mr OLSEN. No, sir; I don't. Mr SPECTER. Had Kay talked to Ruby earlier on that Friday? Mr OLSEN. I believe that she did. Mr SPECTER. Was that in person or by telephone? Mr OLSEN. I believe it was by phone. Mr SPECTER. Where was she when she talked to him by phone, if you know? Mr OLSEN. At her house. Mr SPECTER. And where was Ruby, if you know? Mr OLSEN. I think he was at his house. Mr SPECTER. At what time did that telephone conversation occur? Mr OLSEN. I believe it was in the afternoon sometime. Mr SPECTER. What was the purpose of that call, if you know? Mr OLSEN. To find out if she had heard about the President's assassination---- Mr SPECTER. Was there anything else said by either Kay or Ruby at that time when they had telephone conversation? Mr OLSEN. I wasn't--I don't believe I was there when she talked to him---- Mr SPECTER. How do you know about the call then? Mr OLSEN. She said that she had talked to him. Mr SPECTER. Do you know whether or not they discussed whether or not the Carousel Club would be open that night? Mr OLSEN. I believe they did. Mr SPECTER. And do you know what Ruby said about that subject matter? Mr OLSEN. He said that it would not be open. Mr SPECTER. Do you know whether Kay telephoned Ruby or Ruby telephoned Kay on the occasion? Mr OLSEN. No; I don't. Mr SPECTER. How long were you at that garage at Jackson and Field before you saw Jack Ruby on that Friday night or early Saturday morning? Mr OLSEN. Oh, 30 minutes to an hour, I guess. Mr SPECTER. Could that garage be located on Jackson and Akard, A-k-a-r-d? Mr OLSEN. No, sir. Mr SPECTER. How far is Jackson and Akard from Jackson and Field? Mr OLSEN. One block. Mr SPECTER. Did you discuss with Ruby the fact that he closed his club that night? Mr OLSEN. Yes. Mr SPECTER. What did you say to him, if you recall? Mr OLSEN. I said that it should be closed. Mr SPECTER. Did you congratulate him for having closed it? Mr OLSEN. I believe I did. Mr SPECTER. Did you shake his hand? Mr OLSEN. I don't recall. Mr SPECTER. Were you pretty emotionally upset about the assassination of President Kennedy at that time? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. Was Kay pretty emotionally upset about the assassination at that time? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. How about Johnny? Mr OLSEN. He was, too; yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. And how about Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. What indication was there that you observed that Ruby was emotionally upset about the assassination? Mr OLSEN. He was very nervous. Mr SPECTER. In what way was that evident? Mr OLSEN. Oh, in his speech and his actions. Mr SPECTER. Was there any other indication that you were able to observe that Ruby was upset about the assassination? Mr OLSEN. Oh, the way he talked, and that was it. Mr SPECTER. Did Ruby mention anything about the Weissman advertisement that appeared in the Dallas papers earlier that day? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. Mr SPECTER. What did he say about that? Mr OLSEN. He said they shouldn't be open. Mr SPECTER. What Weissman advertisement had appeared earlier that day? Mr OLSEN. Just the usual ad in the paper about them being open. Mr SPECTER. Was there any advertisement in the paper that day containing derogatory statements about President Kennedy? Mr OLSEN. There was something in the paper, I believe, about somebody carrying banners in one part of town. Mr SPECTER. What kind of banners were those? Mr OLSEN. I believe they were about President Kennedy, and what they said, I don't remember what it was. Mr SPECTER. Do you remember Ruby's comment about that, or whether he made one? Mr OLSEN. I believe he did say something about that. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall what it was? Mr OLSEN. He said that it wasn't right, and "I just wonder how they feel about it now." Mr SPECTER. Did he say anything about the radicals in Dallas at that particular time? Mr OLSEN. Not that I remember. Mr SPECTER. Did he say anything about the effect of all that on the Jews? Mr OLSEN. I believe he did. Mr SPECTER. What did he say about that? Mr OLSEN. No; he didn't; I don't believe he said anything about that; no. Mr SPECTER. Now, at about what time was it---- Mr OLSEN. Let me think about that for a minute, will you? Mr SPECTER. Go ahead; take your time. Mr OLSEN. I heard something about him saying after he shot Oswald that he wondered if the other Jews would blame him for what he had done. Mr SPECTER. Did you hear that from Ruby personally? Mr OLSEN. No; it was hearsay. Mr SPECTER. Who told you that? Mr OLSEN. I either read it or heard it. Mr SPECTER. Do you recall where you read it? Mr OLSEN. I believe---- Mr SPECTER. Or from whom you heard it? Mr OLSEN. It was either in the paper or from someone who had been to visit him. Mr SPECTER. Who might it have been who was to visit him? Mr OLSEN. Wally Weston. Mr SPECTER. Who is Wally Weston? Mr OLSEN. He was the master of ceremonies there in his club. Mr SPECTER. When did you last talk to Wally Weston? Mr OLSEN. When I was in the hospital after the car accident. Mr SPECTER. When did that car accident occur? Mr OLSEN. December 7. Mr SPECTER. How long were you in the hospital? Mr OLSEN. Two weeks, two and a half weeks. Mr SPECTER. What injuries did you sustain in that automobile collision? Mr OLSEN. I rebroke my leg. Mr SPECTER. In the same place? Mr OLSEN. The same place and some more breaks. And I cracked my chest bone. Mr SPECTER. Indicating your sternum? Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. And I broke some ribs. Mr SPECTER. What hospital were you in? Mr OLSEN. Methodist. Mr SPECTER. What else did Wally Weston have to say on that occasion, if anything, about Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. He couldn't understand why he did it. Mr SPECTER. Did Weston say anything further about Jack Ruby? Mr OLSEN. Not that I remember. Mr SPECTER. Have you now told me everything you can remember about that conversation among you and Ruby and Kay and Johnny that night in the garage? Mr OLSEN. Between who? Mr SPECTER. Ruby, Kay, Johnny, and you at the garage the Friday night or early Saturday morning of the assassination. Mr OLSEN. I can't think of anything else. It was a conversation about what had happened to the President and Officer Tippit, and everyone was very upset about it. Mr SPECTER. What time, to the best of your ability or recollection, did that conversation end? Mr OLSEN. Two or three in the morning. |